COLUMBUS, Ohio — Ohio Gov. Mike DeWine needs to have more policy discussions and get to know GOP-supported Vivek Ramaswamy before endorsing him for governor, he said in a one-on-one interview.
For fifty years in the public eye, DeWine has walked his own path. As he finishes his term, at times, he's diverged from the Republican party with vetoes, public statements and silence.
I sat down with DeWine on Friday, where he told me he wants to leave the state in good hands. But it's not exactly as he pictured it.
Once then-US Senator JD Vance became vice president, DeWine had to fill that seat. Cincinnati entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy had big ambitions and set his sights on leadership in the state, either in the Senate or as governor.
After passing over Ramaswamy to appoint former Lieutenant Governor Jon Husted, DeWine's heir apparent, Ramaswamy made his plans clear and kicked off his campaign.
DeWine chose former OSU football coach Jim Tressel, a popular and widely known figure, as his new lieutenant governor and urged him to run for governor. But the Party endorsed Ramaswamy, against DeWine's wishes, before Tressel got into the race. Still, the governor continued to say that there was still time.
In September, Tressel announced he would not run.
The following conversation has been edited for clarity and length. Although more topics were discussed with the governor, this story focuses on the questions around his legacy and political fight.
Trau: "You've been in politics for 50 years. You've been very successful in a lot of your endeavors: landslide elections, major companies coming to the state. How do you play your cards wrong when it comes to picking your successor to continue your legacy?"
DeWine: "Well, it's up to the people to pick my successor, and my job is to do the best I can for eight years. I was very fortunate the people have given me two terms as governor of the state of Ohio. I think whoever the successor is, I'm sure that they care very, very deeply about Ohio and they'll do a good job."
Trau: "Of the two people who are seen as the top candidates, you have Amy Acton on the Democratic side, and you have Vivek Ramaswamy, who's on the Republican side. You and he are very, very different in personality, but also policy beliefs. Do you feel comfortable endorsing somebody who differs from you on schools, health, education, immigration?"
DeWine: "Well, first of all, I've said I'm going to endorse the Republican nominee for governor. And Vivek and I have sat down and right here, and had a number of conversations, I think three very long conversations, and our plans are to continue to do that and have more conversations. I'm not sure that we're that far apart, really. He has not been in office before, and what I'm simply trying to do is to relate some of the experiences that I've had, and also talk to him and hear from him about where he thinks Ohio needs to go and what his goals are."
Trau: "Has Vivek Ramaswamy not earned your endorsement yet?"
DeWine: "I think it's a process. I didn't know him; I've met him a couple of times, but didn't really know him. An endorsement is a serious thing. I don't know how impactful it is. I'm not sure that people really care who endorses whom. I think ultimately, it comes down to the candidate. So the endorsement, I think, is hyped a lot more than it really is worth. But for me, I want to get to know him. I'm still doing that. We're still discussing issues, but I fully expect to endorse the Republican nominee for governor... I've really enjoyed these conversations that we've had, and we've gone through a lot of the big issues that the governor has to face and that the people of Ohio have to face, and it's a lot about."
The governor continued with examples of challenges that the office has. On Thursday, he addressed why he hasn't endorsed yet with a more direct answer.
"I want to get a better understanding of his positions, what his vision is," he said.
However, DeWine said he has a sense of urgency, especially on making sure his priorities — literacy, mental health, support for children — are shown to work and are continued by the next administration.
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"Will that be the next governor's priority? I don't know that... The burden of proof is on us to show that what we are doing is actually making a difference," DeWine said.
And the governor also addressed Acton and the criticism she is facing now from Ramaswamy's campaign for "shutting down" Ohio during the pandemic.
"The decisions about what to do were mine," DeWine said. "Buck stops with the governor... Buck stops with me. I made the decisions."
He continued that he thought he was getting advice from many different experts, and chose to act based on the best advice.
"I'm the responsible officer. I'm the responsible person in regard to those decisions," DeWine said.
Trau: "Despite how you think that Jon Husted is doing in the Senate, do you regret appointing him because he will no longer be following in your footsteps of being governor?"
DeWine: "Now, I had two choices, two picks. I'm very lucky and fortunate that I had that opportunity, and the first one was to go to the United States Senate... I know how very important that job is. I know how important it is for Ohio to have someone that really understands the state. No one understands it better than Jon Husted. Jon has done a phenomenal job... My second pick... I'm very, very pleased with Jim Tressel... What I see day to day is even better than I could have imagined. This guy is a natural leader. He relates to people. He drills down on problems. He could be a success in any job that he ever would be in. He's a phenomenal guy."
Trau: "Were you disappointed when he decided not to run for governor?"
DeWine: "Well, look, he had to make that choice... I think very much surprised him and asked him if he would serve as lieutenant governor. I never once asked him, 'Are you going to run?' My ask was, 'Will you serve as lieutenant governor? I think you're the best person. If something happens to me, I would feel very comfortable with you walking in and being governor.'"
Trau: "Well, yeah, but we both know that you are strategic. Clearly, he has name recognition in the state. Clearly, people love him. And he would also continue your legacy. How much did that play into it?"
DeWine: "Well, I wanted someone who, if something happened to me, if I couldn't serve, I died, could walk in and continue the work that we were doing... Look, he, independently, made that choice not to get involved in the race."
Trau: "When you look back at the experience that you went through, are you concerned about two people who are coming into this race who have never held really an elected public office?"
DeWine: "Well, I think we're seeing that more... Look, there is a learning curve for any job. I think the key for somebody who's not been in public office before is they need to surround themselves with good people, and that's no different than if you had 50 years' experience as I have. You want good people; the people around you are very, very important, and my experience is you want people who are willing to tell you you're wrong, or willing to point out to you the consequences of a certain action so that you then get the value of that input. You don't want to be surrounded by people who tell you, 'Yeah, you're right all the time."
He continued that a governor needs to know who they are and their values, but needs other people to help be the experts in specific areas.
Trau: "Is it bad for Ohio that there is really no primary?"
DeWine: "It is what it is. I've been in politics a long time, and I've been in many races, and most of the time, many times, I had a contest in the primary. I usually did. That's sort of the norm, it would appear at least. And we haven't hit the filing deadline yet, maybe somebody comes out and runs, but it appears that we pretty much now know who the Republican nominee is going to be and who the Democratic nominee is. That's unusual. It is what it is, and people will have a choice. I think it'll be a very interesting campaign."
Trau: "Jon Husted has a pretty intense race coming up. He's going up against Sherrod Brown, who you have obviously had familiarity with in a race."
DeWine: "Yes, yes, Sherrod Brown beat me, so yes."
Trau: "Are you worried?"
DeWine: "We look at Ohio and, and people are saying now it's 'Really a red state... It certainly is a state where a Democrat can win statewide. There's no doubt about that.
"We don't know what the political climate's going to be a year from now or 10 months from now. So sure, everybody has to worry, and you have to always run very, very hard, but the one thing I know about Jon Husted — no one will outwork him. The guy's a phenomenal worker. He knows how to raise money. He knows how to campaign. No one's going to outraise money. No one's going to outwork him. I think he's a very attractive candidate, and he's someone who cares passionately about the state, and I don't know anybody who knows more about the state than Jon Husted does."
Final thoughts
Trau: "Is your legacy at stake?"
DeWine: "Oh, I don't think I should be worrying about a legacy. I don't worry about a legacy. What I do worry about is I have 390-some days left and I wanna make the most of that and do the best that I can... There are just a lot of things that are a work in progress and I've got one year to try to get them done or at least put them in a solid place."
Trau: "Are you a dying breed of Republican?"
DeWine: "Well, I don't know if I'm a dying breed of Republican... I consider myself a Reagan Republican, and I think my basic principles have not changed. Do parties evolve? Yeah, they evolve. We only have two parties, so they have to evolve, and that's what we're seeing."
Trau: "Anything else you want to add?"
DeWine: "Whoever the governor is, there's nothing more important than our kids... We have an obligation to do everything we can so that a child can live up to his or her God-given potential. That, to me, is the most important thing any governor can do."
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